People we once thought of as reasonable become angry. All so sad! But it seems that the true believer would not say, Now I un-repent and un-accept Jesus Christs death and resurrection as the atonement for the sins that I will never be able to pay, but rather, How is my sin like these sins? What is a godly response to this still-unfolding situation? and Is this a church I can keep attending and supporting?. Is this a ruse to further that idea? Note how often those being accused are the old dogs, gone or soon to be gone from the public eye anyway. Its a thing now. Headless Unicorn Guy wrote: AFAIK they havent yet made any corrections or denials. Same play book. This video was shot in and aroundKirkenesand Pas National Park bordering Russia, at 70 degree north and 30 degrees east. Again, the new york . They also have two children together, whose name we don't know. Sometimes theyre letting you know who theyve really been followingand who they havent been. Ephesians 4:2 Lawrence Krauss is a famous atheist and liberal crusader and, in certain whisper networks, a well-known problem, according to author Peter Aldhous, in his article on *BuzzFeed*. Such a horror of more revictimization. Some of these little churches were literally destroyed. Plausible deniability for Bill. Good night! I thought it was weird when my friends dads would kiss my cheek but I recognized that was a cultural difference really and let it be. Is it that tough for you to give Bill Hybels any redeeming value? Who are the people our Creator said were His people? Certainly not the ones who keep claiming they are always the victims. However not having a backup to retrieve is a bad idea and deleting email automatically (other than spam) is a bad practice. Among the prominent U.S. and Palestinian church voices who spoke was Lynne Hybels, co-founder with her pastor husband Bill of the Chicago area Willow Creek Church, which itself spawned a . Or it could be that he has no civil right so to speak to have his hands on her in the first place and therefore the responsibility to monitor his own behavior is his and not hers. : ) (John 18:10 NIV). He didnt want to stop and I have some doubts that he took it when all this stuff happened. Some sources say that they dated for five years, broke up, got engaged then broke their engagement and later got back together and finally got married. But If you make a big deal about nothing, you are the problem. Your boss? But I believe the women who have been abused by Bill Hybels are telling the truth. : Ive been silently wondering the same. Of course, some people, probably many people, will do things just for politeness sake. I had the Willow Creek model thrust down on my church over 25 years ago. For many years, they were THE place when on job hunt. Think carefully. These things dont work without followers and their money. But thats over the course of 42 years of ministry! He told me he had taken Ambien. IF NOTHINGS DOCUMENTED, IT NEVER HAPPENED AND YOU CANT PROVE A THING!!!!!. They dont feel like telling anyone, just swallow it and hold it in. Ruth Haley Barton, formerly of Willow Creek and trained at the very contemplative Shalem Institute for Spiritual Formation in Washington D.C., wrote Invitation to Solitude and Silence, and teaches contemplative prayer through her Transforming Center. We must judge actions and , if they are wrong, we must pass judgement on them, even if it is one of our beloved leaders. (ed deleted link). 1 comment about arms As someone who didnt grow up in the church, I see the deep value of it. Im not saying any of that is right. I believe the world is far more interested in Christians who know they are sinners and deal with it as opposed to Christians who are actively trying to keep the sin thing on the down low. I am all for systemic analysis and the big-picture view. Eleven repented and realized their failing at the resurrection. Please read what I, a former elder, wrote. Kudos to these two publishers. Lather, Rinse, Repeat, Lather, Rinse, Repeat, Lather, Rinse, Repeat, Pingback: Some Thoughts on Supposedly Feminist Men Who Reportedly Abuse/Harass Women | futuristguy. Im unclear about what faith journey means, but it sounds very Willow Creek. Prestige of Willow Creek? Alcohol made me do it (Perry Nobel) Have you any clue how prideful this sounds? Jesus healed that man and told Peter to stow it. 19 For it is written, I will destroy the wisdom of the wise, and the discernment of the discerning I will thwart. 20 Where is the one who is wise? So, it is imperative to preserve discoverables especially as the destruction or withholding of them may mean the court can interpret that act as consciousness of guilt and therefore assume that the evidence went against the case of spoliators. My mom would come up to my room and cuddle while we talked when I was little and not so little. I know of one drawing up plans for an old fashioned Chapel complete with a steeple to put on their campus for those who prefer smaller churches. Little children they say do not like to be hugged by the old people so I dont do it. There is really not a comparison to what the two men did. I stayed silent, but I now see that Im not alone. You see pastor do something and you know its off, but you rationalize it away I mustve misunderstood what was going on. Down the road, you something else, maybe far worse comes up, you think Oh, pastor, hes a little quirky, but he means well. You then experience something genuinely alarming, you think Well, hes an imperfect man, but God uses us all, no ones perfect.. Abuse works on the good-hearted the ones who are trying to give others the benefit of the doubt, questioning their own discernment, seeking to extend charity. There is a legal concept called spoliation of evidence, which refers to the destruction or withholding of evidence whether done intentionally or accidentally. Shameful! But only a few. All of the disciples failed Jesus. Nancy, like Vonda, believed her experience with Bill was an isolated incident. God is always present, even in the hard and dark times. If you (the church at Ephesus) do not repent, I will come to you and remove your lampstand from its place. Rev 2:7. Why wait until now?? Theres been so much of this lately that I think (hope!) But Hybels and Willow Creek kept moving forward. Why wait until now?? The next time you make a blanket statement about what the Bible says, pause, think about it, Google and find some help for these difficult concepts. 3) Their situation is, as Jack Nicholsons character says in the movie of the same name, As good as it gets.. Its not about perfection but it is about striving to be. It goes with safe spaces at college. So, Am I over thinking it?, one wonders. They are fighting for Hybels. Might I suggest this might more accurately say that sexual predation is not always based on wanting to have sex? Rob Bells questioning of Hell has earned him a spot on the heresy list. Ill assume you mean well and are somewhere back in that stage where youre still denying. You described it so well. Obviously very biblically ignorant site!! However, there are a couple of things we cannot judge and this is what I believe what Scripture is talking about. Which God/god Bill ? You are right, the whole situation smells of cover-up. havent forgotten. @ Davis and Natasha: Brad, given my age, their is a high probability that I was taking college bible class before you were born. Im not sure if Julie is a regular or not (I cant keep up), but a new Twitter account alerted me to that article as well, that is why I asked. Now the manipulation continues as the abused who have raised their voices are abused yet again. Dont allow it in your personal life. Many friends of mine wouldnt have been willing to come to church (and eventually come to Christ) without the rock worship band and friendly-to-outsiders sermons. I refuse to answer the question How many people have you led to Christ? That question has no place in our discussions. The couple was hitched in 1974. 1 comment deleted. A seminary student molested a bunch of boys at my former church. And of course, the crisis management priority hangs over all of this. Theres much interesting reading on the Donald MacLeod thread, including this 1988 quote posted Thursday by Malcolm, from Mr James Fraser: his response failed to allay my fears that there was some truth in the allegations. The FAQ document she links, however, entitled Willow Creek Response to Local Media, has mysteriously transformed itself into a 404 NOT FOUND message. I do wonder what the men exchanging holy kisses in bible times did for their brains. Its the evil person who masquerades as a good person. This is ridiculous! A hint here, a casual comment there, Twenty Chess Moves in Advance. Women get to decide if they want to be touched or not, and oh he did not mean anything by should never even have to be brought into play-in the workplace. Christ truely cared about the underdog, and did not like religious leaders that abused their positions. The only thing you can blame other people for is making his deception known. Refuse to settle for eloquent lechers. So done. Watch and youll see it some day! I dont think Jesus sees things the same way they do. I refuse to answer the question How many people have you led to Christ? That question has no place in our discussions. If nothing else, it is incredibly prideful of a person. Why? I have scolded him & tutted at what hes said & jokingly just gone go on , get out of here, but Id never tell his wife & risk that blowing anything in their family up. That length is reserved for the husband/wife relationship, comforting someone, or greeting someone close whom you havent seen in a long time. Do you want to know about Bill Hybels. The church is doing fine. The Aurora from TSO Photography on Vimeo. @ jackie: @ Lydia: I have long been leery of Hybels (and other mega church pastors) because these guys are basically Christian rock stars and are treated accordingly. Jodi Walle, who worked for John Ortberg, has written a note. Thanks, Futurist Guy. Soon as your back was turned, the mask flipped off like a light switch and there was only the contempt of the Predator gloating over the stupidity of his Prey. But, visa-a-vis Nancys testimony, if things really were so bad and uncomfortable in that hotel room, why the following admittance: On a subsequent conference trip to Hawaii, I went running with Bill and he struck up a conversation about the amnesiac side effects of Ambien. Excuse me? Two general statements: Its up to friends what they do. 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